[This is part 2. Click here to read part 1.]
Ah, yes.
The selfishness hook.
It works wonders, doesn’t it?
Especially on women.
I’ve coached hundreds of women, both at my retreats and in my on-line seminar. The fear of being “selfish” comes up often when a woman is making a choice that goes against the traditional cultural model, or if her desire is different from what everyone expects.
Nowhere is this more true than in the “to have kids or not” question. This is a major trigger point.
Women have heard this one very strange outmoded story for too long: that women who choose a life without their own children are clearly selfish because they are choosing their own “freedom” or “ambition” over the delight of raising and serving other human beings.
I call it The Selfishness Myth.
And I have exactly six things to say about it:
1 – Not having children makes you not have children. That’s all.
2 – Having children is not the Automatic Selfishness Release Lever.
A simple stroll around the aisles of any Super Wal-Mart will show you that.
3 – People who label others as selfish are most often not “creators.” They are “getters.”
(See my post Creating vs. Getting for more about this.)
Let’s face it. Most people are not clear. Most people live life from a place of reaction, not Creativity. Most people try to get things in life, and don’t know how to create things in life.
When these people meet someone who makes clear choices, or sets boundaries, or treats herself with care, or only says yes if it’s an Absolute Yes – then it looks like selfishness.
That’s because when you live in the Getting place, then your very survival necessitates a world where other people are unclear and don’t make healthy choices and aren’t sure what they want.
That’s because “getting” involves strategies and manipulation. Manipulation requires that other people don’t have any boundaries or clarity about their time, money, and choices.
So, the word “selfish” is convenient. It allows the labeler not to have to look at her own feelings of powerlessness. Instead she just feeds her ego and puffs-up her world-view.
4 – There is no point in getting vitriolic about people who play the “selfish” card.
They are not mean or bad or evil. They are merely unconscious. And they’ve never taken the bold steps to discover their own huge power to create their lives. They are scared.
5 – Redefining Selfishness is necessary.
When you step begin to “Live Creative,” and you get clear about what you want and how to create it from the inside out, then you’ll often have to stop waiting for others to validate your choices. Instead you will have to Redefine Selfishness.
6 – If you want to Redefine Selfishness, try this definition on for size:
It is not selfish to choose to live how you want to live. It is selfish to expect other people to live how you want to live.
Given that definition, we all know many parents who – no matter how many offspring they produce – will never become unselfish.
And when it comes to parenting, the simple act of asking whether or not you want children might be a wise and bold and unselfish first move.
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{ 40 comments… read them below or add one }
I was surprised by the title of this post. I have always thought it was selfish to have kids. You look around and see a lot of disparity in the world and so many children without parents – and yet you want to *bring* a child into the world? And yes, I did. And our son has brought me and my husband such enormous joy it is like he filled a well from which i now have so much more to give to others.
As a child, I did not want to share my doll with my sister once. My mother, no doubt in a fit of exasperation, told me to stop being selfish and share. That incident left quite an emotional scar on me, one that I have been working hard to redefine this year.
One of the smartest things I have done in my life waiting to have a child when I felt more prepared for it. Yes, I was called selfish and people wondered what was “wrong” with me, but on this decision I held firm.
WOW! That is well put.
It is true when creation comes from within the outcome is quite different.
It makes me understand that I allowed the pressure at times to make me feel selfish. As time went by I decide to choose for me and not for others. Each day I am learning to live and let live. No matter what parent or not we are all precious.
Well said. Much appreciated.
It is not selfish to choose to live how you want to live. It is selfish to expect other people to live how you want to live.
Wow ! so important to remember.
I can’t imagine ever calling someone selfish because of the decision not to have a child. I think of it as the more responsible decision in many respects, especially given environmental and overpopulation concerns.
However, whenever I think of my children, one of the gifts I think that they’ve given me is the ability to expand and be more generous rather than contracting. They’ve helped me to do and be and grow more than I would have otherwise. They’ve helped me to see and expand the limits of my patience and endurance. At times when I was depressed and my motivation to change my situation was flagging (close to nonexistent), knowing that there were small people dependent upon me helped me to take the steps I needed to take to become well.
So, from this side…I truly do believe that having children helped me personally to be less selfish, in both the sense of giving and in terms of not being attached to outcome (’cause my kids will really bust me on that one!)
Does that make sense? I can honor the decision not to have kids and respect it, and at the same time I can feel that having kids fundamentally changed me. I hope – though I can’t of course know for sure – that I’m better off for it.
I’ve read these past two posts with some reticence. I struggled with my family choices most of my adult life. Many of these external and internal voices you’ve talked about here have paraded through my mind for the better part of a decade.
So, finally, I made the choice to have children and also made some pretty radical changes in my life to support that choice. I love my two beautiful babies very much and wouldn’t change a thing. But, it has been a road that hasn’t been easy.
Did I make the choice for the right reasons? Maybe not.
I agree 100% that those who accuse others of selfishness are doing so out of a place of powerlessness. And many of my fellow moms live in this place. Our society and culture does not support families the way it used to, and those of us who choose this path don’t realize that until after we’ve experienced parenthood for awhile.
To use your language, many of us have bought into the myth that we will “get” a certain family life, and are disgruntled when we don’t. Making a paradigm shift to “creating” that life is difficult when we are tired and disappointed. Inertia is hard to overcome. It’s easier to criticize others to medicate our aching souls.
But, those who have made the choice to be childless by no means have the monopoly on feeling selfish. Just try walking away from a sobbing two-year-old for some personal time. It kills me every time.
When someone tells me they don’t want children I always say, “How great that you know that and honor that!” I say that because being a parent is the hardest job on the planet! And I never even had to ask myself if I wanted children, I always knew I did. I never have thought it was selfish on their part…usually they have a very full and fulfilled life. I can remember a friend that as she approached 40 was rethinking the decision to not have children. She always came back to “But I couldn’t play golf all weekend if I had a child” I don’t know if that was the real reason but I’m glad she listened to those doubts.
::sigh::
And if you have a (wanted, cherished) child, you are told that it’s selfish to want to stop at one. Never mind that you had postpartum depression liek whoa. Never mind that you feel financially and emotionally able to care for one, but not more. Not only is it selfish, but you are doomed to having a horribly, horribly spoiled, lonely and maladjusted child.
No matter what we do we’re wrong!
I can totally understand not wanting to have children; I felt that way for the first 6 years of my marriage, until I *didn’t*, and nothing was going to sway me at either time. If someone *never* feels that s/he wants to have children… cool! It is not the be-all, end-all of existence; you can be completely fulfilled with other parts of your life.
Bravo.
At 46 with no child or husband, I’ve been called selfish. Not by anyone being mean, but just someone who couldn’t imagine anything else. Maybe the decade spent teacher squashed the few desires I had to make the commitment to raising children.
Love the way you’ve been talking about the paradigm shift (I have to re-read Creating vs Getting!) I’m only just beginning to lift the self-imposed limits of my visions of my future.
Thanks for talking about this so eloquently!
I love this dialogue because it brings into the open the many fears and misperceptions out there. I appreciate your equating selfishness with fear b/c that’s sooo true!
People all but tell me I’m selfish all the time for traveling sometimes for work when I have kids at home. So, there seems to be no end to the judgement. Even having kids does not seem to release one from the judgement police! Thank god I’ve learned not to take that on anymore.
Thank you for this post. It is great. My favorite line may be, “Not having children makes you not have children. That’s all.” Love that. It is really that simple.
Once aspect of coaching is to know your limits. When to step aside and recommend a mental health counselor. Pregnancy issues for me are one of those areas. Your questions are great they help a woman seeking this guidance to go deeper. To get pregnant or not is more than a coaching question for a woman. My concerns are this- transference and counter-transference.
Does the person you’re are speaking with have children or not, can they remain objective? Do you need to talk to a mental health counselor about ‘the issue’ because of your own family dynamics? I share this because I watched a coach (friend) guide her client (a friend) into not having children, and it always felt wrong. Please the issue needs to be addressed by someone with the proper training and education.
I’m just catching up with this series Christine. And I come into this discussion as a father of three children. And…the older I get, the more I accept that it is YOUR choice to do what YOU want. And it should remain your choice. Whatever that is – kids, career, spouse, volunteering, etc, etc. Point 6 nails it – we should all live how we want to live – and not expect everyone to comply with what our definition of living is. Christine, I respect your decisions to live your life that way you desire. In fact (I think you mentioned this), you are truly living your life in this way. More so than many people out there. (but who am I to judge…).
So…it’s not selfish to NOT have kids. It’s a choice….more than many have honestly made for themselves…
writing SLOWLY on my iPhone in the Austin airport…firstly — michelle, I wasn’t coaching anyone about this issue. I was speaking to the idea of selfishness and decision making. When I work with people I don’t give advice. I steer then to their own decisions. But u r right about this issue! I’ve never coached someone about kids. It was just unclear writing on my part!
Thanks everyone for such deeply considered comments! As u know, I font believe in RIGHT or WRONG decisions. But I DO encourage clarity… And there’s lots of that here. Very moving.
Gotta go board the plane!
I think the topic of having (or not having) kids is up there with politics, religion and sex. You get a lot of different opinions and points of views and discussions can get very heated because the topic is close to the heart to everyone. So I’m always saying ‘be and do what you want to do – if it makes you happy, fine – it’s your life – I respect your choices and preferences – please do the same with mine’. And I usually try to wiggle myself out of conversations that start to heat up because people just want to drill down their opinion. That’s where you are right on the selfishness part: that is is selfish to expect other people to live/think/vote/have babies(or not)/pray/have sex like you.
As a forty eight year old woman, who never felt the “ticking” clock and am now menopausal, I ultimately chose to remain childless…it was the rigth decision for me. I am astonished by the number of situations where strangers start a conversation with not, “Do you have children?” but “How many kids do you have?” When I reply in the negative, the follow up is one of 2: either “Why not? Or, “Oh, you will change your mind.” Let me ask, if fthe situation were reversed would it be “appropriate” or socially acceptable for me to ask, “Why did you have children?” I think not. Yet, I am asked to explain myself over and over again.
As to the selfish aspect, my personal take is that it would be far more selfish of me to bring a child into this world when I am ambivalent, at best, about child rearing; and sincerley feel that I am not up to the task. Perhaps, for some, choosing not to have a child is the ultimate in selflessness.
Overall, I agree, with the generaly thread here. This is still America. Land of the free. We each get to chose the lives we want to create, as long as we are doing no harm.
OH, and one more thing. I truly believe that we should stop judging the choices of one another, especially of other women. I thought the point of the woman’s movement was that we would all be able to choose the best path for our individual talents and life circumstances.
Christine, great and timely post. I am a single male, 39, with no kids. Reading an eHarmony profile tonight, I was matched with a beautiful woman, a mother of two kids. Her profile stated something to the effect that she loves her kids, etc, and that having kids has made her less selfish. I agree with Stacey at the top of the comments that, in many cases, having kids can be selfish. If you are having kids just to keep up with your friends, then you are having kids for the wrong reason.
I have always been unsure about having kids and have felt that it would depend on my future wife. It makes no sense to me to want to have kids when I have not met the right woman yet. It is a decision that needs to be made out of love and for the right reasons.
I did feel a bit selfish for not having a second child since my existing one asked for a sibling. No, pined, longed, cried for one.
But she got over it.
And she has lots of friends to play with.
This is a very difficult topic, and I don’t feel comfortable discussing it. However, here’s a great quote by Benjamin Franklin. He said, “Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither”. I think there’s so much to think about, and so little freedom in this area. So many expectations and so much fear, that it’s impossible to make a decision based on what you (I) really want. I will never be able to know what I want, because there are too many constraining variables.
I’m with Mindful Mimi and Monica the subject of children should never be brought up as you NEVER know the circumstances of why people do or don’t have children.
The choice to have children can be quite selfish to fill a hole in a person’s life and make someone fill it. I’ve got a friend who has done exactly that but I would never ever tell her that.
Excellent post. Coming from an “age of reaction rather than planning women” I applaud the young women today who make the decision to have a child or NOT to have a child. I agree it has little to do with selfishness but with the act of knowing yourself and being conscious of the impact your personal decisions make.
P.S. Have recently downloaded one of your albums and am definitely looking forward to getting my hands on your newest! Great music – great decisions you’ve made:)!!
Thanks Christine for an interesting and delicate topic! I didn’t get less selfish having a child, but I think that was the beginning of my self-discovery-journey. I got more conscious of my inherited reactions (thanks for that!). (Of course I’m not saying you have to have children to learn about yourself). And now I feel selfish, just like Jannie mentioned, for not having a second child, although my son’s begging and people always say how “lonely” a single child will be.. I’ll stick to my decision, though..
Thank you Christine. This is a very valuable post. I’m 50, never married, no kids, but the circumstances of that decision are sad for me, and very personal. Yet people make all kinds of judgements about it (selfish, gay, bitter, etc. — and none of these are true). And you’re right, selfish is a cheap “default” label that people throw out there too easily, and women will do almost anything not to be accused of selfishness, so it often works.
It always seems ironic that the people who seem most judgemental about it are the ones with the worst marriages and whose kids have problems of their own that they should be worrying about . . . yet they feel superior just because they said ‘I do’ and reproduced.
Thanks for writing this.
Wow, it’s amazing to me that we are still having this conversation.
I’m a no-kids person. Never had “the urge” that was supposed to show up. And it has never once been a big deal. I went and traveled, I have had great jobs, great sex, great boyfriends (and two great husbands).
If that makes me selfish, I can certainly live with that. And what’s so bad about being selfish, anyway? Doesn’t it beat doing things because you’re “supposed” to?
Let’s dispense with the guilt toute de suite and enjoy our precious lives.
As always, a stimulating post!
Cheers,
Jean in Oregon
I think that this is an odd subject or maybe I am just surprised that it is an issue at all. I have children and never really considered not having them but I don’t see that there is anything really to discuss about having or not having them. It is such a personal choice that I guess I don’t understand why it is discussed in a public forum.
I appreciate you starting this dialogue. As someone who does not want to have children, I am gratified to know there are so many others who feel the same.
I remember being confronted by relatives after being married for over a year. My husband and me had decided not to have children…..but we didn’t make an annoucement on our private decision to the family. Did they question him….No!! But they were always putting me on trial during family events. I did ask my husband’s aunt why I should have children. Without hesitation she replied….”To get it over with!!”……how do you like that reply.
Whew…well in case no one else said it – I think it is far more selfish to HAVE children to fullfill some social expecation or try to vicariously live out your unexplored dreams through a child than to choose not to have one. There are all kinds of families in all kinds of sizes with and without blood relationships and legal documents. I have children – and I love them (obvs.;) but it wasn’t a choice I made lightly. Kudos to you for being exactly who & where you need to be right now.
Christine,
Could you comment on the statement, “Being a parent is the hardest job on the plante”? When I hear things “like” this, it makes me want to scream. “Being a “this or that” is the hardest whatever. It’s an arrogant and closed-minded statement. If someone has “taken” that path, so be it. But it means that the person has foregone another path — which may be just as hard or harder. Your blog is usually so peaceful. I hate to sound so contradictory, but perhaps you can say something in the way that you say it to shed perspective in a way that I’m not.
Pati — Did I write that somewhere? I can’t remember?
Personally, I think ALL jobs are probably hard – but that’s only because I believe that we are placed on this planet to grow, and if you’ve chosen one path, most likely you’ll be required to experience growth and face some of your inner obstacles and stuck spots. This is never easy.
I have often thought that being a songwriter is the hardest job on the planet – because it has made me grow past my comfort zones and insecurities in a huge way. It’s the path I chose – and I think it’s MY soul that needed to do it.
But now, I don’t believe in a “hardest job on the planet.” (though i wouldn’t want to be president of our country right now. that’s for sure!) I think it’s just something people say, an expression.
I think parenting is a deep job. And if you’re having a bad day, it’s a hard job. There are times when my brother (who has four girls) seems so tired and harried, and I KNOW he just wants peace and free time. THAT’s what is hard for him… to learn how to be present, even when he’s frustrated. But I know there are days when he loves it, too! (AND, I also have to remember that he chose to have all four of them!
)
When it comes down to it, every job is what you decide to label it.
My favorite expression is this: Life is an illusion. Make it a good one!
Hi Christine,
No — you didn’t say it. Someone on the blog did. I’ve heard it before, though. You have such a nice way of putting things in perspective, I thought you could address it better than me. My take is this: I’m just glad to be alive. Thank you! p
Wow, what an important topic! I really appreciate what you’ve written, and the many wonderful comments. I’m working with the decision TO HAVE kids, struggling with the fact that the values of our society at large go against, even squash, the actual process of motherhood (be that with OR without kids), those revolutionary qualities of love and care-taking, qualities I find here, on your blog or on a well-run farm, qualities of stewardship perhaps.
In having children I fear the loss of my personal space ( I need LOTS of it). And the mother-guilt, YIKES, I’ve got enough guilt as it is… But more importantly, I fear that I’m somehow unfit for this incredibly challenging task and I’m terrified of being one of those mother’s who uses her children as the measurement of her own personal worth or sense of perfection. My own mother was bulemic for twenty some years, a good ten of them in my early years. (and of course there is MUCH more to her than that; she’s a beautiful woman, in many ways just now really coming into herself and, as her daughter, it’s pretty incredible to see). But naturally everything in our household kinda revolved around that, the secrecy of it, the shame. And the food/self-image thing is something my sister and I have both struggled with. I’ve been diagnosed with this, that, and the other and been on medication since I was 13 (I’m now 29). Of course there’s the question of the actual impact of the medications I’m now taking on the physical/mental/emotional well-being of my child, the questions of whether or not I’d breast-feed, and with these questions, that larger one: “Do I even have the right to have children?”
From where i stand, it seems that so many women just have kids, that it’s easy, the next natural step in their lives, and there isn’t much discussion about what it means… How awesome would that be, to never question whether or not I’m “equipped”!
Surely child-rearing is not something that we can do alone. It DOES take a village to raise a child and while I know that the decision to have children ultimately belongs to me, it’s not a decision that I can make without knowing that the larger community in which I live is committed to supporting my efforts and caring for my child… and me.
I’ve thrown a lot out there and will work on a more coherent articulation of these questions but in the meantime, I’d love any feedback on these questions! And thank you, Christine, for opening up this discussion!
Lizabeth…
Your words welled up in me the impact we have as parents on our children. I value the fact that you are deeply concerned with the question of having children.
I thought back to the days when my children were young. Bulimia was not the issue when I grew up but alcoholism was. I married a man who drank heavily and has recently passed away due to the complications of his choice. Did this all affect myself and our children…Yes it did…
But what I want to say to you is to just float.
…In the moment…in our lives…we are sometimes faced with choices that seem so overwhelming that we are swallowed by them…These are moments to float…My mom always told me that when you don’t know what to do…do nothing. I have modified that to simply float…the answer usually appears, just like Christine’s line “Leap and the net will appear.”
Lizabeth,
be not afraid to be as you choose to be, with or without children, for your reasons and yours alone, equiped or not and sometimes the village be damned, but the heart is blessed.
Thanks christina c.- your words take away some of the urgency, the pressure of “getting it right.” And they reminded me of PJ Harvey’s song “We Float,” which I’m listening to right now. Thank you.
So true…those people who throw the first stone! I’ve had to tell myself the same thing — they are not creative, they are scared, they do not know themselves and frankly, I intimidate them because I own my feelings…even if I am mess.
I have learned just in 5 months with a baby to carve out me time and hold other capable people accountable. If I cannot do some things for me and feed my creative energy then I’ll get lost and I think my son will appreciate a mom who strives for balance.
It’s extremely selfish to have children. Look at all the homeless children. Children starving, or without parents take care for them. Until there is enough food or care given to these children,
I would never even consider bringing more into the world.
Having a child is selfish because having a child comes from ones self. I totally agree with d’s comments. Yes, there are lot of people out there who choose to have children for their own selfish needs. They do not consider what type of environment they are bringing a innocent human being into. Also, I have indentified that the younger generations are too molly-collied & their negative behaviours are condoned too often than not. Whereas I was given a very strict upbringing & to think I was a child of the 70’s. Quite a laid back era really. More & more of these younger generations are going to end up with Narcissistic Personalilty Disorders due to the parenting they have received. They are made too special & too precious. Some people should not breed & I feel that some kind of aptitude test will one day need to be produced to prevent the undesirables the world from breeding. Because as we all know there is no ‘manual’ or instruction book in how to bring up children. And every child ends up as an adult unless something awful has happened & they do not make it to their adulthood. And I am on the same page as ‘d’ 100%, may there be more adults out there like us.
I recently had a discussion with my bother and sister-in-law regarding their involvement with my kids 12 and 10. Basically there has been little involvement with them. My kids have been to their home 4 times total…and they live 5 minutes away. By the way…they chose not to have any children. During their 13 years of marraige I have heard diffrent reasons why they made the decision they have. During our recent discussion, my sister-in-law told me that she felt that having children was one of the most selfish things someone could do. I was blown away to say the least. I thought to my self, does she REALLY believe that or is this the latest justification for their decision. I guess that my initial reason for having children was for the experience and joy but not only for me but for the children we would bring into this world. So I guess that could be thought of as selfish…. But after they were born, I realized that it was probably the most selfless thing we could do.
I have a question to those that have based their decision to not have children based on the number of chilren that were born as result from “Selfish” or parents with the inability to care for them … or starving???? Do you sponsor any of these children through a charity????I agree that there are too many children that are not cared for…If that is truely one’s sole reason for the decision not to have children…that’s awsome. Some could argue that all people that don’t want have children are self absorbed or selfish….I don’t think that is always the case, and to think so is ignorant. For those that think that ALL people that chose to have children for their own selfish reasons?????? Well????